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The time is 14:46:54 and the date is 5 December 2008

www.quixtarfacts.com

Merchants of Deception

Quixtar Wiki

The facts concerning Independent Business Ownership in North America for IBOs Powered by Quixtar]

blogspot.com Quixtar Sucks]

Quixtar Topic at MLM Blog]

Yet another blog that an anon IP is trying to add to this article. I have not even read the content. A quick looks shows many advertisements on the page (commercial links- are click throughs generating revenue for this user?). As I have said above, regardless of the quality of information available, wikipedia is not in the business of promoting blogs. If someone really wants to find out all the different opinions on Quixtar, after reading this article, they can easily use google to quickly find many different blogs and other resources on the web. David D. (Talk) 17:49, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Supporters

Do people like Paul Harvey really support Quixtar or are they paid to endorse quixtar? Sure he advertises their products on his show, but i don't see how this is the same as supporting the product. David D. (Talk) 00:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I really question the whole section and whether or not it actually adds anything to the article. It doesn't provide specific endorsements (Ronald Regan thinks Amway/Quixtar helps American's do "X"...) it just says he spoke. Fantastic. I speak daily - often times in public places where others hear me. It doesn't mean I endorse the particular venue... Gallwapa 04:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm new to wikiepedia, so I don't understand? There was a section for who endorses Quixtar and somebody added a list and linked to a video with those very people saying they support Quixtar. It's not like the video is on wikipedia, it was just used to support the website post wasn't it? --LordTedric 11:53, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

—Let me be the first to raise the red flag here. I find it very interesting that Lord Tedric has started contributing today after Insider has been called for adding his own site to Wikipedia as a link and then linking his site again by cramming in some text and linking a video that is nothing more then simple promotional material. The very next day Lord Tedric shows up out of nowhere and adds back the video (and the link to Insider's website) the day after it was removed. Not to mention taking an interest only in this paticular video. Then on top of all that their timestamps for their posts here seem to be pretty close together.

As far as this video being bias, one only needs to see it to know it is clearly bias. Many of these companies are partner companies with Amway and therefore have a financial interest in making these videos. Many of the speakers refer directly to the business relationship with the company. Getting an endorsement from those who have a financial interest in your success is anything but unbiased.

Also, since all the POV sites and blogs have gotten the boot Insider has simply been seeking ways to get links to his site from Wikipedia, which is a clear bias POV site. If you are going to let links like that stand then you open up a can of worms where other POV sites will add videos mixed in with BS text and other things just to get the links. If Wikipedia plans to stay unbiased in their articles, this video needs to stay deleted and any links to a clearly bias website as well. Otherwise you may as well open the floodgates and let anyone with a blog or site about Quixtar post a link here. Independent patriot 02:50, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

External Links, Round 3...

Uh? I guess the concept of the discussion-for-links got forgotten?... Gallwapa 04:15, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Either we include blogs in this topic or not. It is not fair for a select few to decide which blogs are OK and which ones are not.

The Team / Thanks

Can anyone expand the details of the connection between Quixtar and ""? I don't understand it well enough to explain it. I would like to thank the many people who have contributed to this article and this discussion. It helped me understand this thing when a friend tried to get me to sign up for "The Team" without telling me of the connection to Amway. Barwick 18:01, 6 July 2006 (UTC) The Team is an organization that teaches specific techniques and offers support on building a Quixtar-affiliated business. There is no connection to Amway, short of being owned by the same parent corporation (much like Aston Martin and Ford are owned by Ford Motor Company, but are obviously not the same companies). And on a personal note, I'm sure your friend checked "this team thing" out, and believes it's good and would be good for you, are you going to trust your friend whom you've known for years? decades?, or some strangers on the internet?

BOT

I asked another admin on IRC about those links and decided to reduce the blocklist to only the blogspot and the www.thisbiznow.com ones. Thanks. Voice -of- All 19:05, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

spokespersons

I just added back Powell since it can be sourced. Having said that, it is from http://www.prnewswire.com/ (but published on Forbes.com) which seems to be an advertising agency? I'm not sure this is a reliable source and the article in Forbes (from PR Newswire), reads like promotional material. I would be happy to delete the Powell stuff unless we can find an independant source for this information. David D. (Talk) 14:52, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Unscrupulous vs undercover

Barwick (talk  · contribs) wishes to use the word unscrupulous to describe an investigative journalism report. An example of the rationale is here as quote: "undercover" implies it was done with respect for rights of innocent people (like an undercover cop). If I tricked your kids into letting me into your house to watch your family, is that "undercover"? End Quote. I stand by my comment that the use of the word is Berwick own POV opinion of the investigation. Undercover seems to be descriptive of what happened. Unscrupulous paints a picture. here are the two definitions of undercover:

Neither definition of undercover "implies it was done with respect for rights of innocent people". Undercover means it was secret. This could be either bad or good. Uncrupulous can only mean bad, consequently the use of the word undercover is significantly less POV than unscrupulous. What do others think? David D. (Talk) 19:23, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Litigation

has all you need to know on what a pyramid is. In summary, if you do not have payment for recruiting then you cannot be an illegal pyramid. It's the sine qua non of an illegal pyramid. This was made clear in FTC v Amway ...

This has been repeated again and again in case after case. Links to first sources are in the first link provided. The claim the 70% rule and Retail Sales Rule are what makes Amway/Quixtar a non-pyramid are, to be charitable, a gross misunderstanding by MLM critics that has been repeated ad nauseum over the internet.

Now, as for the 70% rule, to quote FTC v Amway again -

It's about inventory loading, and it includes sales at wholesale, ie to downline distributors for resale. The statement above is from the Court in 1979. Here it is again clarified by Quixtar in a letter in 2004, since the "misunderstanding" keeps getting spread, even as far as here on Wikipedia -

It's only "arguable" if you ignore the guys who wrote the rule and ignore the courts who interpret it. The 70% rule and Retail Sales Rule were found to protect against inventory loading and to encourage retail sales (that is, sales to end users, it's not even specified this has to be a non-distributor, and the letter talks about that too).

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External Links redux

WP:RS is not the correct standard to apply to external links in an article, as WP:RS is meant to apply to sources cited in the body of the article. I propose that links that were erroneously removed under "Failure to pass WP:RS" be restored. DonIncognito 21:40, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Controversy

There's a dispute above about whether a video of a person giving their opinion is acceptable evidence of that persons opinion, but reading the "controversy" section there doesn't seem to be any sources at all except the dateline video. What gives? Why is that acceptable? --LordTedric 20:42, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Dateline did an investigative journalism piece and invited Quixtar to interview with them as well. Quixtar declined. The video Insider has been trying to add to get a link to his site from Wikipedia is a promotional video with many of the endorsements coming from the founders and CEOs of companies who are partnered with Quixtar/Amway and therefore have a clear financial interest in endorsing Quixtar/Amway. Matter of fact many of them elude to the business relationship in that video. Clear not a bias promotional video for Amway/Quixtar. Also, why would a video that only mentions Amway be added to the Quixtar page at all. I thought they were two different companies. Independent patriot 02:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)